$NLY Annaly Tape Reports
Per Ticker.id: $NLY Annaly Tape Reports — timestamped podcast mentions, volume, and share of voice. Latest 2026-07-04 12:00 UTC.
I'm not so concerned about PennyMac's leverage because it changes. When mortgage companies have to hedge interest rates, they tend to take on more leverage. When interest rates are falling, volatility is less, they have less leverage. What I worry about with PennyMac though is the way they run their business, the way they do actually hedge their interest rate risk, because oftentimes they spend too much money on it. You may recall I'm good friends with Stan Middleman at Freedom. He doesn't hedge a lot of his risk on his mortgage servicing book at all. He goes out and makes more loans. It's a very different approach, whereas public companies like PennyMac, because they want to, I think, preserve or protect the fragile sensibilities of institutional investors, they spend a lot of money trying to hedge and reduce the swings in income and earnings. That results from the business. It's just, it's an interest rate sensitive business. So I like PennyMac, they're one of the market leaders, but frankly, I'm much more keen on players like Rocket, who I've worked with for years. I'm an advisor to them. I think they get it right. I think Freedom gets it right the way they run their business. And there are a number of others. And of course, we, you know, we talk about Annaly a lot. That's a mortgage REIT that just goes out and buys mortgage-backed securities. Again, though, they have to hedge the interest rate risk and they do so very efficiently. So when I talk about a mortgage company, I'm not so much worried about the leverage if they're doing good things with it, if they're going out and making money with it, right? Because it is a leveraged business. Most mortgage companies will have at least 5 times debt versus equity in terms of leverage. So I wouldn't worry about that particularly.
Chris Whalen — The Julia La Roche Show · #385 Chris Whalen_ Gold Headed Higher, Goldman $4,900 Target, Silver China Buying Spree · 2026-07-04All right. This is Christopher would like to know, he says, I think Chris has great insight into the market and I would like to understand his argument better. Could he give some more details as to why he wouldn't touch the preferred? This is for Annelie, by the way, Chris, why he wouldn't touch the preferred for Annaly for a lower volatility income play, Wouldn't the preferred make more sense?
Julia La Roche — The Julia La Roche Show · #382 Chris Whalen: Private Credit's "Slow Motion Train Wreck" & The Warning Signs for a 2028 Housing Reset · 2026-06-27And that's why we're lucky to have people like you, Chris, who are willing to do that. And then for you to come on here every week. All right, we have to get to a few viewer questions. You answered one. I do not know what this person's screen name is, so I'm not going to even try to pronounce it. But you said you're in the common shares of Annaly. And they also wanted to know, since Annaly profits from interest rate spread, is it beneficially, Is it beneficially? If I don't know what they were asking, if longer term rates go up, I guess is it beneficial for longer term rates?
Julia La Roche — The Julia La Roche Show · #379 Chris Whalen: The Bond Market Already Hiked, Why Double-Digit Inflation Is Still Ahead, And Kevin Warsh Sets New Tone at Fed · 2026-06-20The short answer is yes. Annaly just raised their dividend. Why? Because the yield on the securities that they buy has been going up. So they felt confident enough to actually increase their payout. I love it. You know, remember REITs like Annaly and PennyMac and all the rest of them tend to buy government insured loans and securities and then they turn around and fund this stuff with equity and the repo markets short term. So their spread is enormous. They use preferreds as well as common equity to finance their capital needs. But then they put 10 to 1 leverage on these government shared assets. And that's how you get that 15, 16% yield. So do I watch the spreads? Yes. Am I worried about Annaly? No. That's one of the best teams in mortgages. They know how to hedge their book. They also own mortgage servicing rights which are a negative duration asset that has cash flow because you get paid to take care of the mortgage every month. Right. The combination of those two I think is very powerful and it enables them to manage their risk both ways. And that's why I like it. I stopped buying short term Treasuries. I just have everything sitting in Annaly because you know, they have government insured assets so why would I even. There's no credit risk here. All you have is market risk, which they're very astute at managing.
Chris Whalen — The Julia La Roche Show · #379 Chris Whalen: The Bond Market Already Hiked, Why Double-Digit Inflation Is Still Ahead, And Kevin Warsh Sets New Tone at Fed · 2026-06-20I don't think tips are really reflecting the true rate of inflation. If you look at TIPS right now, they're telling you inflation's going to be 2, 3% next year. I think you're much better off getting into a fixed income investment. You know, I own Annaly. There's a number of other REITs that own government insured mortgages. There are even some interesting corporates out there that would pay you several times what you're going to make on the tips. I don't think the TIPS are a good shelter for inflation right now.
Chris Whalen — The Julia La Roche Show · #374 Chris Whalen: Fed Policy Losing Efficacy, Rate Hike Coming Anyway, Private Credit Defaults at 6% · 2026-05-30